Unidades de Presión

10 minute read

In a small workshop in Poblenou the artist Gonzalo Guzmán brings his lucid dreams to the physical realm through his captivating sculptures.

Interview and photography
by David Leon Fiene

D: Hola Gonzalo! Can you give me an introduction about yourself, who you are, where you are right now and what you do?
G: I’m from Madrid and moved to Barcelona eleven years ago to study Industrial Design. I started my studies in Madrid and then decided that I wanted to go to Elisava in Barcelona, which for me was the best school in Spain at the time. So I ended up doing my Bachelors at Elisava and in Ecal in Switzerland. After graduating I started a creative studio with Raúl Arribas de Miguell called Kiwi Bravo. Most of the activities we develop here in the studio are focused on communication. We work a lot with photography and video to create narratives around objects. For the last two years I had the feeling that I wanted to change things up a bit. I wanted to continue the work with Kiwi Bravo but felt the urge to explore something else on the side.

D: And now you are working on a very interesting project. Can you tell me a bit about ‘Unidades de Presión’ and the inspiration behind it?
G: I was this annoying kid. Every morning when I woke up, I would tell my mum and sister what I dreamt because my dreams were super intense experiences for me. I have always had this intense relationship with dreams but since the pandemic I started having lucid dreams, which are dreams in which you realize that you are dreaming. So you kind of wake up inside the dream and you can modify your context, the people that are around you and do crazy stuff. It was so transforming to know or feel the capacity that we have to transform the context around us. In some of these dreams I started to see metallic structures but I didn’t know what they were. The feeling that I had when I approached them was total peace, like a warmth in my chest. So I decided to bring them to this reality. I wanted to see how I would interact with them in real life. That’s how the project started. Even if the sculptures look quite abstract, they are very figurative. Caspar David Friedrich painted trees inspired by nature. I am kind of doing the same with this process, allowing me to build something big but light, by using metal.

“With these sculptures one of my goals is just that - raising more awareness and interest
around dreams.”

So the first reason to build the sculptures is to interact with them in real life. Actually you could say that I am trying to learn about these objects through building them. I am not sure if I am explaining myself well but when you want to know a lot about something, a good way to investigate this thing is to draw it.

D: Because you have to look at the details closely right?
G: Yeah, and while reproducing it you learn a lot about it. So that was kind of the process, but in 3D not in 2D. The second reason is that nowadays not many people care about their dreams and we don’t explore the potential that they have. I believe it offers a beautiful context where you can live and have experiences that you can apply to your everyday life. Actually, the feelings that you have in a dream, even if you think they are not real, are real. If you are in pain, you are in pain. If you dream that someone you love dies, you suffer and that suffering is real. And I believe that having a context without real consequences, in which we can experience real feelings, is something that we should take care of and try to explore more. With these sculptures one of my goals is just that - raising more awareness and interest around dreams. And I think this is very related to the current times. Think about the metaverse. It is another reality where we can interact under certain rules, which are different to the rules in the physical world. The context of dreams is different but it is a space where we can explore and have wonderful experiences and transformative experiences, like in my case.

D: You mentioned that you already had an intense relationship with dreams when you were a kid and also had an interest in sharing them. Is that something that intensified over the years or was the pandemic the first moment where you felt like you wanted to express this more?
G: Yeah, it was during the pandemic. Lucid dreaming was so shocking for me. Better than any festival or any experience that I have ever had before, so I had the need to express that. I think while being locked in, in the same environment and not being able to go outside, at some point my mind said let’s go to another place and that’s what I did. And actually my first exhibition was called AFTER. Do you know what it means here in Spain?

D: Like an after party?
G: Yeah, so my dreams are kind of my after party. I feel like my mind wants to keep doing stuff and I let it. This intense interaction with dreams started as a kid but it was during the pandemic that I felt it very strongly. And now, through this new project, I am starting to explore more. I'm talking to experts and really digging deep. I mean lucid dreams are not something only a few people in the world experience. Half of the population experiences these lucid dreams and all of us dream, even if we don’t remember.

D: I met a guy in India who was training his ability to lucid dream. He was training to move around in his dreams.
G: I mean there are a lot of techniques. It's something that is really interesting to try and the great thing is that everybody can do it. It’s something that I really want more people to experience.

D: Going back a little bit, expressing concepts and experiences in creative ways, maybe more in a commercial aspect, is something you do a lot at Kiwi Bravo, right? I assume it is a part of you.
G: Yeah totally, and actually some of the projects I have been developing with Raul have this oneiric feeling.

D: I am curious to know more about the connection between this project and your practices in the studio. Are these related for you? From personal experience it’s sometimes tough, but also rewarding when your creative expression is your daily bread. Doing that, finding the time and energy to create your own work and putting yourself in a different mindset can be hard. How do you experience that?
G: Yeah, actually managing that is not easy but the two are similar in some ways. Both Kiwi Bravo and the sculptures have a creative part, in which you want to achieve something and you need to find the most efficient creative way to do that. Sometimes I bring things from one world into the other. Last week in a shooting we were playing with textiles and I applied some of the solutions we came up with for that project to the sculptures. It’s tough to manage because it’s time-intensive but at the same time it’s great and I can apply the things that I learn to both projects. When I try to explain this to some friends they are confused. They are like “but what are you? Are you a photographer? Do you work in advertising and publicity? Or are you a sculptor?” They don’t get it. Nevertheless, I think that for our generation it is easier and for younger ones even more. Now everything is so fluid. Gender, new jobs… everything is changing so fast and I think it’s becoming more common to mix different fields.

D: I feel that a lot because I also do a lot of stuff and sometimes you can feel forced to define yourself but in the end I guess it’s a choice.
G: Yeah and actually I need both. And when I say I need it, I really mean it. If I was just doing the work at Kiwi Bravo, I would be missing something.

D: Where do you think the motivation comes from?
G: That’s a good question. I think it’s just a feeling or an impulse that I follow. I can tell that I am super motivated but I can’t tell you why. It’s like when you need to pee. You don’t know why. You need to pee so you go to pee. For me doing sculptures is just like that. I need to do them so I do them.

D: Your work is quite conceptual. What do you think creates the openness or interest in people to approach this art form?
G: I think that it’s about curiosity. It totally depends on the attitude that you confront an art piece, a film or a song with. If you are open, you want to learn and actually enjoy it, you can experiment. If you go to a museum, to a gallery or to a concert with a closed mind this interaction won’t happen. It’s an interaction. The art piece gets the meaning through the viewer.

D: Yeah, I think there is a lot of beauty in things that are not so literal. Talking more about the theme of subconsciousness and the construct of reality in your work, is that something you explore primarily or do you also play with other themes?
G: It’s my leading theme. I see so much potential in it and I am really enjoying exploring this oneiric reality. I see so much potential there, so I definitely want to focus on that right now.

D: Maybe it’s scary for some people.
G: Actually, it can elicit that reaction because you discover a lot about yourself in dreams. Maybe you see something that you are not comfortable with and you think to yourself “Wow, is this me?”

D: Do you have examples that you feel comfortable sharing?
G: I won’t describe it but for sure I had some of these experiences in my dreams after which I woke up shocked. Like, have I really done this? It allows you to experience some things that in real life you couldn’t.

“Once I am certain it is
a dream, I can
start to do things.”

D: So you see yourself from above or how does it work?
G: What happens to me is that I am there and suddenly something very strange makes you think f***, this cannot be real. This is not normal life. It could be a conversation. For example, last time I was talking to my grandpa and he said something that he would never say. Then you start noticing some other things that are off. But still, it is so real. It is even more real than this. So when this happens, I need to do something that I wouldn’t do in real life, to make sure it is a dream. For example, jumping out of a window. Once I am certain it is a dream, I can start to do things. Change the building a bit, start to fly or whatever. Have a conversation with someone with who it’s not possible to have a conversation. But before that, I need to do something as crazy as killing myself in order to be sure it is an illusion. Actually, I don’t really think it’s an illusion, I think it’s a parallel reality.

D: That would be very scary to a lot of people.
G: And trust me, even if I know it is a dream, I am careful because I’m worried that I could kill myself.

D: And why do you think it’s a parallel reality and not an illusion?
G: Because it’s even more real than this. The moment you realize that this reality is something auto-generated in your brain, it is super powerful. You can start to look at things differently, as I told you, and start to change the context around you. That’s why having these experiences changed me so much.

D: Did you do any scientific research on this?
G: I am talking to one of the most famous researchers in Spain, Enrique Ramos. After the summer I want to do some courses with him and also some tests. I heard about places where you stay in a liquid and they isolate you totally.

D: Like Stranger Things? [laughs]
G: Kind of. It’s kind of science fiction. [laughs] So yeah, right now I’m investigating that and also what dreams have meant to different cultures and people throughout time. In our society we don’t care about dreams but in previous times, Egyptian, Romans, they had temples where they went to sleep to have these kinds of experiences. Sometimes it was to look at the future, sometimes to make decisions.

D: Could you tell me a little bit about the video you made about the pieces and the concept behind it?
G: Actually it’s a portrait that Aitor did. I love the work of Aitor Bigas. I wanted to generate a piece to communicate the project through creating a narrative around it. Aitor is a genius and he puts so much effort and motivation into his projects. He did most of the creative direction. I was there with the pieces but it was really his interpretation of the project. In the video there is this painting that I love. It is hanging in Museo del Prado and is called ‘Jacob’s Dream.’ The painting is pretty special to me because I would go to see it with my school when I was a kid. There is something very strange about it. You can see Jacob who is sleeping with his head on a rock and if you don’t look in detail at it, that’s all you see. However, if you go super close, you can clearly see that there are stairs and angels in the clouds. I remember going to Museo del Prado as a kid and I asked the teacher if this was a mistake. The teacher told me that I have a special eye and that I see special things. I kind of forgot about that painting but it was a very motivating sentence for me when I was studying. Thanks to this teacher I dedicated myself to art. One year ago, while exploring dreams and all that, I came across that painting during my research. And I was like “wow, this is the painting that I saw as a kid and it’s about lucid dreams!” I really love that painting and every time I visit Madrid I go to Museo del Prado to look at it.

D: Wow, what a story. I have two more questions: Are we in a lucid dream right now and do you experiment with hallucinogens?
G: [Laughs] We are not in lucid dream right now. The only thing that is different between this and a lucid dream, is that here there is a continuation. Otherwise, if I didn’t remember how you came here, I would not be sure.

Actually, I think it’s great to have tools to open your mind and explore the world. As I said, we have a filter in our brain and if we kind of improve or change the way we perceive reality, I think it’s great. There are different ways - there’s drugs, meditation, a specific diet… I do some tricks to improve my lucid dreams.

D: Like what?
G: For example in the painting, Jacob is sleeping on a rock. This is important. Not being comfortable when you sleep helps to reach this state in which you are sort of in between dreams. Being awake and asleep at the same time.

D: Are there any other projects you have coming up?
G: Yeah, actually I’m developing new pieces with the same language. Different dolmens. Some are also kind of big. Right now, I’m preparing two more projects that are related to dreaming but in a different way. You will see!

D: Any last words?
G: I hope that we are not in a lucid dream.

D: [Laughs] Thanks Gonzalo!

Interview and Photography by David Leon Fiene who is a filmmaker and designer. He greatly enjoys working with designers, artists, and artisans, reflecting on the journey to owning one’s craft.

Shot on S8mm Kodak vision 3 7207